An interview with Jerry Vass

“An interview with Florida neighbor and author Jerry Vass, marketing/sales guru, and future blogger and podcaster.”

Jerry discusses his experience with writing and publishing. The traditional publishing process is slow and inefficient. He considers himself more of a short story writer than a book writer, and is thinking about starting a blog instead of finishing his current book project. He believes the publishing industry is outdated and that blogging could be a better way to share his ideas and connect with readers. Jerry also talks about his background in sales training and how he focuses on effective communication rather than just sales tactics.

So he started to tell a story who were in the kitchen, and then he, so I listened to the story and then he started to tell a second story.
I said, “Hold on a minute, let me just do this for you. " And so I did, and at first he was kind of self-conscious, and he talked in third person about me, to the people, listening to the thing, and I said, “No, no, don’t do that.
Just talk to me like you’re just talking to me,” and then he got the drift of it, and he did one, and it was a big hit.
They loved him, you know, my listeners or readers or whatever.
So anyway, so you’re sharing V AS, V-A-S-S, do you have a web log yet? No, I don’t, I don’t have a web log, I have a website, VAS. com, but it’s, you know, that’s strictly commercial.
So what do you think? Well, of course, what do you think about the idea of having a website? Well, I’m just coming to it this morning.
The reason I drove down here to talk to you is because I had converted a book that I had on CD to MP3 files with the idea that, of having people who were interested in the book download it into their iTunes, I’m a Mc Queen, so, into their iTunes, and they’d load it onto their iPod, and actually turn the iP od into an educational device, not just rock and roll.
So that was the whole point of it, and I’m now beginning to, well, I’ve had this book in the works for at least seven years, and somehow this book, I have the parts and pieces of it, but it never wanted to come together, and the fact of the matter is I am not a book writer, even though I have a book on the market and have had for 10 years, soft selling in a hard world.
What I really am is a short story writer.
I write short pieces, and to me , that is, my view is anybody can write about anything in 30,000 words, but it’s hard to compress, and I use the word “compress” in software, in software sense, where you actually squeeze the dead space out of the thought or the concept or their story or the idea, and I’m pretty good at that, at squeezing that stuff out, so I’m really a short piece writer, and so I’m seriously considering, rather than finishing this book and sending it off to the publisher, which quite frankly, is more and more in my mind, an antiquated way of thinking, and you can trust me on this, the publishing business is the most backward business in the world today.
There’s nothing more backward.
I mean, the publishing business is comparable to streetcars, and because, and they have built in some really interesting traps in the publishing business, for instance, if I submitted a manuscript today, and let’s say that the manuscript was ready to go to press, but this book, soft selling in a hard world, actually, my daughter and we wrote it, we edited, I mean, I hired a copy editor to edit it, then we made it out on PageMaker, we sent it to them on a PageMaker file, they put it on, and they ran the book without change, so they didn’t do any of the mechanical except for the covers, that was pretty forward looking for its time, I mean, it really was, nowadays , and what way was it, we say, well, because it wasn’t being done.
It was the author doing all the production, yeah, the author doing all the production, how long did it take them to go from what you gave them to actual, to go to, to actually go to the street with it, took about 18 months, see, that’s ridiculous, of course it’s ridiculous, while it’s sitting on the shelf there, it’s going out of date, but it’s even worse than that, it’s even worse than that , this little book, and it sounds a bit braggadocio, but it isn’t, it’s just a fact, this little book would sell out instantly, I mean, they would buy a bookstore, buy six copies of the meeting they’d go away, then it would go to a computer someplace, and then it would be ordered by a computer, it would take three weeks for that book to come back in, so the book would be on the shelf for three days, then it would take three weeks to replace it, but that’s the publishing business, so when you’re thinking about writing another book, basically, we’d go through exactly that system all over again, if I had it done today, it would, it would not be on the market, it wouldn’t be in the bookstores for a year, but it’s still kind of nice to go over to Barnes & Noble and just pick up a book, I like that, I ’d crawl around over there all the time, I’m going to Elmore Leonard books now, and basically, there’s like, they ’ve got 30 of them over there at Barnes & Noble, so any time I want any other fix, I can just go over there, I can go up, it’s kind of trashy with its funds, but you know, the distribution system still is kind of relevant, but why does it take 18 months, of course, well , because they’ve got their own weird customs and traditions and stuff like that, maybe unions are involved somehow or something like that, I think it is so hard to make money in publishing, I think they have to have a lot of stuff going, and you just, the author is simply part of the assembly line, it’s just an assembly line, and I mean, out of our discussions, I am seriously considering scrapping that whole idea, in order to a block, because I’m 70 years old, you know, I mean, I’m so old, I can’t, thank you, that’s alright, that’s a lie, I ’m so old, I can’t buy ripe bananas, green bananas, I can’t buy green bananas, but anyway, what I wanted to do is the ideas that I’m working on and that I do work on, because of the nature of my business as an executive level sales trainer, is that there is a currency in persuasion, in a way persuasion, changes over time, people think, well, it’s all about this one way, it isn’t, because the market changes, everything has to change with it, and so we are in touch with those changes, just because this is what we do for a living, and we are at the contact patch between business and the street, well, because we talk to the people who are talking to the people on the street, you are talking to the clients all the time, who is, you are talking, they are talking, our students are talking to those people, and then we talk to our students, and we probe very carefully, in the course of our three day course, and we get information from them, and then we take the information home, and we think about it, and we go, you know what, market is moving, the market is moving here, and so we try to move with that market, and so over time we have discovered a whole bunch of stuff that is totally counter-intuitive and very controversial, it’s going to be very controversial because people, businesses, and industries really have gone against the marketplace, for instance, let’s say you have a firm out here, Acme, Acme Corp, and Acme Corp builds whatever, Acme Corp say as a consulting firm, well they know everything about what they do, they are very smart, and we are a culture of extraordinarily smart and bright people, but the way they have been enculturated by going to school, and by becoming educated, and by the culture, by TV, and all the media that surrounds them, when you ask them what they do for a living, as a potential buyer, as a potential buyer of their services, they can go to great lengths to tell you everything they know, and how smart they are, and their credentials, but they cannot translate it into the language for the buyer, they can’t translate it into their customer’s language, or to a language that works in the boardroom, and that’s what we do, is help them translate all of this education, and all of this experience, and all this marvelous talent into a message over here that a CEO will understand, and you have to understand that CEOs are extraordinarily smart, but they don’t have any time, so you don’t have time to explain how wonderful you are, and so that is one of the things that we run into, and it sounds like hyperbole, but it is universal, it is now a universal problem in our culture that businesses cannot explain what they do from the buyer’s point of view, and so this book is about that, it’s about the new book, where the new book is about that premise, about translating what you do into the buyer’s language, and tent atively titled, I don’t know if it’s tentatively titled, I have about 50 titles and I haven’t really settled on one, but it is about decoding this thing, about this communication gap, so anyway I’m thinking about it, and with our discussion this morning, well hell, maybe I have been waiting for this kind of a breakthrough in thought, and maybe blogging is the way to do that.
Well let me just add something, because I’m listening here, you talked about the stuff is that there aren’t any blogs that I’m aware of that are in this area, there are lots of technology blogs, there are lots of lawyer blogs, lots of political blogs, Business Week has started long ago, okay? Really? Yeah, but it’s not like this, it sort of like covers everything that Business Week covers, which includes the kind of stuff you’re talking about, but it’s not this kind of focus, it ’s not how to market, and there is a guy named Steve Rubel who is a PR guy who has a leading edge blog, you know, it’s how to do public relations in this context, and the things are, you know, I just did a podcast with him in New York a couple of days ago, and it was fascinating stuff, I mean, it’s funny because when, you know, it’s in all of a sudden public relations, you know, which had drifted from being public relations to being press relations, right? Well, now it goes back to being public relations, because you know, that big word just intermediates, you know, right? It’s everywhere that you look here, and you know, I think that where your stuff ends up is that you’re not just going to be talking to people who sell to buyers, but you’re going to be talking to buyers on how to get what they want out of the seller.
That’s right.
Right? Because there are a lot of times when you know that you need a product, I find, this happens to me a lot, where I know I need a product, and I strongly believe that a lot of other people would like to have that product, yet nobody’s making it , and then five, ten years from then that, of course, somebody is making it, and it’s one of the biggest hits you’ve ever seen, and it’s not that it was technologically impossible to do this, you know, five, ten years before, it’s just that the channel communication was a one way thing, and the manufacturers and product designers weren’t themselves users, so it never got to them that there was a way to, there was a product that needed to be done.
You know, something like the iP od, for example, you know, an incredibly convenient form factor, right? But something in a slightly less convenient form factor would have been possible ten years or five years ago, for sure, but somebody had to overcome all of the inertia that comes from thinking, well, things have always been done this way, and you know, you’ll hit the objections in the music industry, and you know, they took a very creative approach to things to say, well, we’ll, you know, we’ll try to work something out with the music industry at the time when it becomes a problem, and of course it worked out real well in the music industry.
I read a thing in The Times, New York Times today, saying the new president of Sony wants an iTunes for movies, because it works so well, you know, and I personally think that iTunes could work even better if it weren’t for so much of the paranoia on the part of the music industry, and you know, it’s unfortunate that it takes time for that to sort of work its way through the system, but it will, and so like when you say that you write in small sort of story-sized jobs, me too, and early on in my writing career, I guess you could call it, I got a book agent, a couple of them actually, wanted me to do a book, you know, they’d say, well, we can certainly sell a book to you, you know, and so I went and looked, and I had already written like three books worth of material basically, and so I went back and printed it all out, just, you know, and they were in essay form, not block, I mean these were, yeah, right, and I printed it all out and put it in a binder, and like they never got around to reading it, you know, because why, because I was writing the stuff for today, you know, and the stuff when I finally did read some of it, I thought, well, you know, it’s kind of interesting in a sort of time capsule way, but this stuff’s out of date, way out of date, the things that I was predicting, you know, I’d have to put after it everywhere to say, well, this turned out to be true, and this didn’t turn out to be true, and so I said, forget it, I can’t do it, so he said, really, we could sell a book, and I said, well, yeah, you can sell a book, but I don’t have it, so we hired an editor to go and try to do this, and the editor, and we hired another, we hired another, and they all struck out, they couldn’t do it, you know, so there is writing that absolutely doesn’t fit the mind, that’s what I do, that you could not make a book out of what I write , and I couldn’t, and in Converse , I couldn’t change my writing style to be a book writer, why, because I would insist on publishing what I write every day, and when I do that, I would, I would, that, when you do that, when you approach writing that way, it changes the way you write, you tend to write in the context of the moment, and maybe somebody wouldn’t understand, like today I said, you know, the coverage of the Pope, well yesterday I said, the coverage of the Pope’s death is ridiculous, we ’re getting an infomercial for the Catholic Church, you know, and why is, where’s the balance to this, why aren’t they, you know, providing, why, why don’t we get an education about the Catholic Church right now, instead of just this PR, each PR onslaught on the Catholic, Catholic Church, you know, today that comment resonates with some people, and of course other people they hate me for saying that, but that’s fine, and I also said today, you know, let’s stop, you know, talking about our friends, let’s make some new enemies, you know, it’s like no fun if you’re just joking with your friends, you know, it ’s better to actually piss some people off, and then you kind of know what you’re actually accomplishing something, but you know, if you looked at that , if a random person looked at that a year from now, you know, what the fuck was he talking about, you know, I mean , they wouldn’t have, even if they were alive and listening and aware at that moment, they’d forgotten it a long time, you know, there’ll be a new pope, he’ll be different in some way, you know, John Paul will be dead, and he’ll still be dead, and you know, and we will be looking at John, so it’s, you know, on the other hand, you build these relationships with people who then become readers of your blog, and then something really interesting happens, okay, after a while of doing that, what happens is they start their own blogs, okay, because there’s this thing that I call the pipe-piper effect, is that inevitably when you stand up and do this blogging thing, you will, if you do it well and you do it consistently, you will attract people who then, at first aren’t like that comfortable with the idea of doing it themselves, and watching you do it, then one day they get an idea, and they say, “What do I want to do with this idea?” and say, “Ah, I’ll put up a blog,” and there they go, now they’ve got, now they’re up and running, and so, you know, it’s, and it’s, I think, a great place to be, you know, when you realize that there’s something, and we’re just going to go through this, and all the different, sort of, human endeavors, and each one of them is going to have a pipe-piper effect, like a food strapper, the person who sort of seeds the idea out there, and given what you do and how you’ve done it, I think, you know, you’d be a great guy, I’m sure Rick Blazer would agree too, that you’d be a great, I just saw Rick by the way, I had lunch with him, like, three days ago, and it was great, you know, just brainstorming, one idea after another, and I think you’d be great at it, I think that everything you’re doing, I mean, okay, you said before that you get six dollars sales for every book that you write, every book that you sell , right, there’s six dollars or eight dollars worth of following business, but you only need one dollar on that book, to begin with, so, I think that ’s a big clue right there, right ? Let’s see, I’ve never figured out a way to, well, I mean, we have obviously capitalized on the additional sale, part of that.
How do you, what are the six-k dollars, what are the sales? Training consultant.
So you get some, you know, they read the book and then they come to take one of your seminars or something? Yes, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, and it continually, it generates a little business along, we sell them out, I mean, it’s, the book business is really a strange deal because if a book sells twenty-five thousand, it ’s considered to be a best-sell, I mean, are it a best-sell? Well, this book has sold sixty- five thousand bucks in the way it’s ever heard, I’m sixty-five thousand copies, in the way it ’s ever heard of the book, except for those sixty-five thousand people.
Why is that? Well, because it’s never been promoted, it’s not stocked in the book store so much, you have to kind of run the book down, it’s all written out.
And still it produces, and so it does everything it’s supposed to do.
So what would you like? Would you like it to be well done? Would you like some more copies ? Well, for strange reasons, yeah , I would, but for strange reasons, because it’s a, this little book is a, it’s a selling manual for salespeople, I mean, it’s like a Boy Scout Max, there is a new controversy in it, it’s just like, this is how you do get, and it’s laid out mechanically, because that’s the way I think of mechanics, and it would help, it would help a lot of people make something of themselves, because most salespeople are really bad, they’re really bad when they do, they’ve read a bunch of crappy books, which is teaching them tricks, and manipulation, and all that.
And people know they’re being tricked, and they’ve heard them say, “Of course, of course. " And that’s why people are so circumspective.
It’s like, watch my hands, you know? No, I know, it’s like, but would you actually be the sales man, salesperson, who actually likes their product, and wants you to be happy with it, you can tell them, and it’s fun to work with those people.
It’s one of you to be happy with the deal.
The salespeople that I have done who are really good, they liked what they were doing, and they liked the long-term relationships that they built with their clients, and it wasn ’t all about money, it was about communicating, and being straight, and helping people do the best they can, solving their problems.
So I’ve been doing it for 27 years, and it’s been very satisfying, because we put a lot of people on the road, and people go, “Well, selling is a sort of downer, I mean, you can ’t do anything else. " The fact of the matter is, people who sell well, they don ’t work as hard as everybody else, they make a lot more money, they live in the big houses, and they drive the fast cars, and they get the kids educated, and their kids teeth look good, and you know, so it ’s a good deal.
And I was just telling you about everybody’s sales, there ’s no such thing as a profession that doesn’t involve a lot of selling.
Not in this country.
Not in this country.
Yeah.
This is not a country where people come and seek you out because you’re a really smart accountant.
That’s right.
Now, it doesn’t work that way.
It doesn’t work that way.
It doesn’t work that way.
There’s a lot of myths around that, and of course, it’s not about the sale, I’m not a bad salesman.
I closed a multimillion dollar deal selling a house in Wood side, a friend of mine who is a well, a very accomplished salesperson.
He made lots and lots of money, a friend of mine who can point it out at that point that I was a multimillion dollar sales guy now.
And he said, “Wow, that’s really weird, haven’t helped with that. " And I watched myself do it, and you know, I’ve learned how to sell things, you know.
I’ve established, establishing a standard, for example, is totally sales.
I mean, you know, it’s technology, sure, the technology, and to know what, you know, what choices to make, because there are a lot of choices, is based on experience.
That, you know, and, but even so, even the most powerful standard has mistakes in it, you know.
I mean, the things that you learn later, it wouldn’t work better if you had done it another way, you know.
But even so, there’s no way to change it.
You still use it, and it’s fine , it works, you know.
So there is technology to it, but it’s 99. 99 percent, you know, politics, I mean, that politics, of course, is sales, I mean, you know, it’s how to get the guy to do what you want him to do, at the same time, to feel that they’re doing what they want to do, you know.
That there’s a mutual, that’s good for everybody, and that’s, you know, it’s about even being or social species, and making yourself feel good, and making other people feel good.
They’re related, sometimes, you know, they are kind of who we are, you know.
It’s going to be great to have a blog, I know, a few people right off the bat who was, who was like, like, the guy was the only one before Robert Scoble, who was at Microsoft, he used to be, before he got into technology, he was a camera stirrer, and what, and he talks about it a lot, you know, he found it easy to compete with the other guys, because they were sort of rushing the customer through , and he didn’t look at it that way, he loved cameras, and he is a naturally ultra gregar ious person, he just, like, he loves, well, he sounds corny, but he loves people, I mean, you know, you can see that, and he doesn’t have a whole lot of tolerance for people who won’t put the time in, you know , it’s like, not every minute has to be built, and they had very loyal customers, and they paid more, you know, to get the cameras from him, because they enjoyed working with the chair, and so, you know, so it’s, I think that, you know , having more, like, marketing and sales energy in the supply sphere would be a very good thing, because, and maybe you’ll be better at marketing and sales.
Well, I look at what I do as teaching communication, probably more than sales. Sales puts a kind of a stigma on it, because selling has a rather poor, stinky kind of reputation in our culture, but actually selling well is really nothing but communicating well, and so, it ’s these communication skills that are in the nut of what we do. We call it sales training, because nobody’s going to pay us to teach them how to be, how to hold a conversation for that.
Yeah, yeah, right.
But that’s what you’re doing anyway.
But that’s what we’re going to do. We’re doing, I tell, I tell people, it’s what we teach is civilized conversations.
Well, maybe we ought to turn the recording device. It still feels like we’re having a, we’re doing a show instead of just having a conversation. So, let’s just wind this down and then continue the conversation. Just, could you say what your e-mail address is if you want to? Yeah, Jerry, Jerry@Vast. com.
How do you spell that? D-A-S-S.
Right, so that’s how people can get in touch with you if they want to. I don’t doubt that there will be people who will want to, and I’m going to help you to get your blog up anyway.
Well, this morning, this Sunday morning out here on the beach, I think that’s the way I’m going to go.
Jerry’s Beach blog for the sales guy.
Well, you know, I used to write , I’ve been writing for… You want me to turn this off? No.
Okay, we’ll do that.
You want some coffee? Yes.
Okay.
What are you taking? I don’t have sugar.
Okay, a little milk.
I have half and half.
Is that right? Oh, yeah.
I’ve been working, I’ve been writing for years and years, and I used to write, I used to write short stories, short pieces, all of that stuff.
Years ago, I used to write in the Terraria Times, and all of that was written.
Yeah, I used to write.
I never could figure out what to do with that stuff.
I have seven or eight pieces out of those days.
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Yeah, I would probably write in the 70s.

• Yeah, I think so.
  Thanks everybody, see you soon.