WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.190
 Good morning everybody, it's

00:00:03.190 --> 00:00:05.640
 Dave Weiner and today is June

00:00:05.640 --> 00:00:07.000
 15th, 2005 and I was sitting

00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:11.050
 at my computer coding away, fur

00:00:11.050 --> 00:00:15.400
iously solving problems, fixing

00:00:15.400 --> 00:00:18.640
 bugs, creating new bugs and

00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:22.010
 whatever. And all of a sudden

00:00:22.010 --> 00:00:23.370
 it starts raining outside and

00:00:23.370 --> 00:00:25.430
 there's thunder strikes and

00:00:25.430 --> 00:00:26.720
 earth

00:00:28.520 --> 00:00:33.130
 shaking thunderbolts. And at

00:00:33.130 --> 00:00:34.400
 first I said I don't have time

00:00:34.400 --> 00:00:35.520
 and then a couple more and

00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:39.010
 they're getting like huge, huge

00:00:39.010 --> 00:00:42.420
, huge thunderbolts and I said I

00:00:42.420 --> 00:00:45.320
 have an obligation here. Here's

00:00:45.320 --> 00:00:52.320
 another one coming. You ready?

00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:52.320
 Now it was out over the ocean.

00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:52.320
 The cool thing about a

00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:52.320
 thunderstorm

00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:00.560
 that's out over the ocean when

00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:02.820
 you have a view of the ocean is

00:01:02.820 --> 00:01:04.600
 that you can tell when

00:01:04.600 --> 00:01:07.600
 you're about to get a big thing

00:01:07.600 --> 00:01:10.220
 happening. So this is the third

00:01:10.220 --> 00:01:11.600
 thunderstorm podcast.

00:01:11.600 --> 00:01:14.970
 Oh, there's another one. That

00:01:14.970 --> 00:01:17.160
 one was due east, I was about

00:01:17.160 --> 00:01:19.600
 to say. It's really, really

00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:29.720
 hot today. My internet was down

00:01:29.720 --> 00:01:32.420
. Like first thing this morning,

00:01:32.420 --> 00:01:34.200
 I totally couldn't get

00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:36.750
 on and so I ended up going to

00:01:36.750 --> 00:01:39.660
 Starbucks and it was too noisy

00:01:39.660 --> 00:01:42.280
 and there were flies there

00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:45.300
 and I just couldn't concentrate

00:01:45.300 --> 00:01:48.180
. I had things I needed to do,

00:01:48.180 --> 00:01:50.880
 programming stuff I needed

00:01:50.880 --> 00:01:52.810
 to do and I just couldn't

00:01:52.810 --> 00:01:55.530
 concentrate. So I picked up and

00:01:55.530 --> 00:01:57.880
 I went to the public library

00:01:57.880 --> 00:02:01.490
 and they have really great Wi-

00:02:01.490 --> 00:02:04.940
Fi access there and it's free

00:02:04.940 --> 00:02:08.480
 and I got a bunch of stuff done

00:02:08.480 --> 00:02:10.740
 there but then school let out

00:02:10.740 --> 00:02:13.130
 and the kids started coming in

00:02:13.130 --> 00:02:15.480
 and they're really, really

00:02:15.480 --> 00:02:17.310
 cute and they come up and talk

00:02:17.310 --> 00:02:19.170
 to you. They really like the

00:02:19.170 --> 00:02:21.000
 library. I sort of forgot

00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:22.690
 about how much kids like

00:02:22.690 --> 00:02:24.900
 libraries but it made it really

00:02:24.900 --> 00:02:27.250
 hard to concentrate and then I

00:02:27.250 --> 00:02:28.000
 was

00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.250
 going in and out of the car and

00:02:30.250 --> 00:02:32.320
 at one point I looked at the

00:02:32.320 --> 00:02:35.640
 thermometer, it was 105 degrees

00:02:35.640 --> 00:02:37.390
 and of course, now there's

00:02:37.390 --> 00:02:39.370
 another strike and of course it

00:02:39.370 --> 00:02:41.400
 was 100% humidity and so

00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:44.080
 like all day, wow, you can feel

00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:46.740
 the house shake, you can't feel

00:02:46.740 --> 00:02:48.400
 it, I'm saying but so

00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:52.000
 all day long it's like what's

00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:55.770
 happening is it's cooking up a

00:02:55.770 --> 00:02:59.240
 great thunderstorm, a really,

00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:01.440
 really great thunderstorm and

00:03:01.440 --> 00:03:03.150
 so now we're reaping the

00:03:03.150 --> 00:03:05.140
 benefit of it and this makes

00:03:05.140 --> 00:03:06.240
 the

00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:10.980
 earlier thunderstorms look like

00:03:10.980 --> 00:03:13.560
 a triple strike. Here we go.

00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:13.560
 Now, not so big but that one

00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:13.560
 went

00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:18.900
 blip, blip, blip, three

00:03:18.900 --> 00:03:24.490
 different lighting bolts all

00:03:24.490 --> 00:03:30.320
 happening at the same time and

00:03:30.320 --> 00:03:30.440
 at

00:03:30.440 --> 00:03:32.870
 the same spot actually but not

00:03:32.870 --> 00:03:35.390
 the great big thunderbolt I was

00:03:35.390 --> 00:03:37.440
 expecting and of course

00:03:37.440 --> 00:03:40.480
 all the while it's just totally

00:03:40.480 --> 00:03:43.390
 pouring rain and I got a little

00:03:43.390 --> 00:03:45.480
 movie of the, oh wow, that

00:03:45.480 --> 00:03:50.320
 was just, that one was really

00:03:50.320 --> 00:03:53.280
 goddamn close. We ought to do

00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:53.280
 the math on this, somebody

00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:53.280
 ought

00:03:59.040 --> 00:04:00.650
 to figure out how close that

00:04:00.650 --> 00:04:02.400
 one was, you know, you can of

00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:04.040
 course figure that one out,

00:04:04.040 --> 00:04:06.640
 take the speed of sound for the

00:04:06.640 --> 00:04:09.350
 moment at which I exclaimed to

00:04:09.350 --> 00:04:11.040
 the moment that you actually

00:04:11.040 --> 00:04:14.100
 heard the damn thing, woo, I

00:04:14.100 --> 00:04:17.200
 wonder how loud that's going to

00:04:17.200 --> 00:04:19.720
 sound, I hope it sounds great.

00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:23.000
 Anyway so, yeah, we're getting

00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:26.170
 ready to release the Outliner,

00:04:26.170 --> 00:04:28.520
 it's a, the to-do list is

00:04:28.520 --> 00:04:28.520
 getting

00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:30.500
 short and the initial test

00:04:30.500 --> 00:04:32.750
 group, I guess there are like

00:04:32.750 --> 00:04:35.160
 what, seven or eight people,

00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:37.270
 I don't know if I remember all

00:04:37.270 --> 00:04:39.370
 the people, it's like Dave L

00:04:39.370 --> 00:04:42.160
uber, Rogers Cadenhead, Casso,

00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:44.680
 Stan Crute, Andrew Grumit,

00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:47.510
 Lawrence Lee, Andre Radka, I'm

00:04:47.510 --> 00:04:50.280
 probably leaving somebody out

00:04:50.280 --> 00:04:52.890
 but, yeah, so they're all seem

00:04:52.890 --> 00:04:55.390
 to be using it, not well, I won

00:04:55.390 --> 00:04:57.280
't say all, but we're getting

00:04:57.280 --> 00:05:03.670
 pretty good participation today

00:05:03.670 --> 00:05:09.130
 and that's a pretty good sign

00:05:09.130 --> 00:05:14.480
 and now people are starting

00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:16.900
 to report the China problems,

00:05:16.900 --> 00:05:18.940
 like Dave Luber reported a

00:05:18.940 --> 00:05:21.480
 thing today, he said, this is

00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:21.480
 something

00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:23.910
 that's just going to drive the

00:05:23.910 --> 00:05:26.520
 first, holy fuck, that's it,

00:05:26.520 --> 00:05:28.600
 people running, there were

00:05:28.600 --> 00:05:30.320
 people enjoying the

00:05:30.320 --> 00:05:32.940
 thunderstorm, that said them

00:05:32.940 --> 00:05:35.460
 running, that one was a block

00:05:35.460 --> 00:05:36.160
 away, that

00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:38.300
 one was right down the street,

00:05:38.300 --> 00:05:40.510
 so anyway, Dave was reporting a

00:05:40.510 --> 00:05:42.400
 problem, he said this is just

00:05:42.400 --> 00:05:44.040
 going to drive the first users

00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:45.850
 crazy and I said, well, great,

00:05:45.850 --> 00:05:47.240
 let's fix it, those are

00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:49.130
 exactly the kinds of things we

00:05:49.130 --> 00:05:51.020
 want to fix because, and then

00:05:51.020 --> 00:05:52.680
 of course the hope is that

00:05:52.680 --> 00:05:54.260
 we're getting, you know, what I

00:05:54.260 --> 00:05:55.520
 want from the next round of

00:05:55.520 --> 00:05:56.920
 beta testers do exactly the

00:05:56.920 --> 00:05:58.300
 same thing, I don't want to

00:05:58.300 --> 00:05:59.680
 know where the nitty little

00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:01.320
 display bugs are, the ones that

00:06:01.320 --> 00:06:03.130
 you'll see, you know, once

00:06:03.130 --> 00:06:04.570
 every couple of days or

00:06:04.570 --> 00:06:06.540
 whatever, I can't do anything

00:06:06.540 --> 00:06:07.000
 about

00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:08.830
 those things, I literally can't

00:06:08.830 --> 00:06:10.150
 do it, I can't go into the C

00:06:10.150 --> 00:06:11.800
 code and change the way the out

00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:12.120
liner

00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:13.850
 performs, but what I wanted,

00:06:13.850 --> 00:06:15.510
 but I do know that the outliner

00:06:15.510 --> 00:06:17.120
 is usable, I've been using

00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:19.890
 this outliner for like 17 years

00:06:19.890 --> 00:06:22.340
, so it's usable, I've written

00:06:22.340 --> 00:06:24.120
 tons of code with it, I've

00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:24.120
 written

00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:26.800
 every scripting news that's

00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:29.260
 ever been written has been

00:06:29.260 --> 00:06:32.170
 written with it, all the Dave N

00:06:32.170 --> 00:06:32.600
ets

00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:33.950
 were written, well I don't say

00:06:33.950 --> 00:06:35.250
 all, I think I wrote, the first

00:06:35.250 --> 00:06:36.160
 ones I think I wrote with

00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:38.730
 more, that's scary, dear God,

00:06:38.730 --> 00:06:41.110
 help, this is what we called in

00:06:41.110 --> 00:06:43.160
 the first undercast, we

00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:48.040
 called this a Godcast, I called

00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:52.010
 it a Godcast because I felt

00:06:52.010 --> 00:06:56.640
 like my partner on the podcast

00:06:56.640 --> 00:06:59.220
 was gone, okay, anyway, so you

00:06:59.220 --> 00:07:01.640
 keep wanting to refine those,

00:07:01.640 --> 00:07:03.640
 you know, get rid of the

00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:05.960
 deal stoppers, things that

00:07:05.960 --> 00:07:07.750
 prevent people from getting

00:07:07.750 --> 00:07:09.680
 worked up, that's what you want

00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:11.590
 to get rid of, one at a time,

00:07:11.590 --> 00:07:13.450
 barrier after barrier comes

00:07:13.450 --> 00:07:15.360
 down, you know, and to the

00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:15.640
 point

00:07:15.640 --> 00:07:17.050
 where, I mean I know you can

00:07:17.050 --> 00:07:18.540
 get work done with this right

00:07:18.540 --> 00:07:20.080
 now, I know, because we are

00:07:20.080 --> 00:07:21.650
 getting work done with it, and

00:07:21.650 --> 00:07:23.100
 I have been getting work done

00:07:23.100 --> 00:07:24.440
 with the outliner, but I

00:07:24.440 --> 00:07:26.730
 want more and more people to do

00:07:26.730 --> 00:07:28.940
 it, and then what I want to do

00:07:28.940 --> 00:07:31.440
 is I want to attract developers

00:07:31.440 --> 00:07:31.440
,

00:07:31.440 --> 00:07:33.850
 I want the kind of developers

00:07:33.850 --> 00:07:36.250
 to come when there are lots of

00:07:36.250 --> 00:07:38.440
 users, okay, and I want

00:07:38.440 --> 00:07:40.370
 them to listen to the users and

00:07:40.370 --> 00:07:42.200
 I want them to be users, and I

00:07:42.200 --> 00:07:43.800
 want the software just

00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:45.720
 to like attract the good

00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:48.320
 developers who like really like

00:07:48.320 --> 00:07:50.800
 to produce software for users,

00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:53.170
 and that's kind of, then once

00:07:53.170 --> 00:07:55.730
 we have that, then I feel like,

00:07:55.730 --> 00:07:58.320
 okay, that's, I've attained

00:07:58.440 --> 00:08:00.790
 the success here, that's what I

00:08:00.790 --> 00:08:02.770
 want to do, that's what I'm

00:08:02.770 --> 00:08:04.760
 trying to do, so, you know,

00:08:04.760 --> 00:08:06.520
 I don't want the kind of bug

00:08:06.520 --> 00:08:08.210
 reports that like aim for

00:08:08.210 --> 00:08:10.400
 perfection, because I know I'm

00:08:10.400 --> 00:08:12.770
 not getting the perfection, and

00:08:12.770 --> 00:08:15.330
 I don't have the patience to

00:08:15.330 --> 00:08:17.400
 get the perfection, I know

00:08:17.400 --> 00:08:18.960
 that I could try to get

00:08:18.960 --> 00:08:21.060
 perfection and I would never

00:08:21.060 --> 00:08:23.240
 get there, I could try to get

00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:23.640
 it a lot

00:08:23.640 --> 00:08:25.250
 better than it is, and I would

00:08:25.250 --> 00:08:26.990
 just never ship, it would never

00:08:26.990 --> 00:08:28.240
 happen, so I'm going

00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:30.040
 to ship for sure, and, but we

00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:31.900
're just going to keep trying to

00:08:31.900 --> 00:08:33.840
 take care of the problems,

00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:36.260
 and then of course, I consider

00:08:36.260 --> 00:08:38.360
 this a platform for outline

00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:40.840
 based applications, and I've

00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:40.840
 got

00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:42.900
 a bunch more that I know how to

00:08:42.900 --> 00:08:44.610
 do, like I want to do a blog

00:08:44.610 --> 00:08:46.560
ging tool for, you know,

00:08:46.560 --> 00:08:48.570
 for this, a really simple, you

00:08:48.570 --> 00:08:50.580
 know, outliner based blogging

00:08:50.580 --> 00:08:52.560
 tool, not built on the meta-web

00:08:52.560 --> 00:08:54.870
 API, not built to work with,

00:08:54.870 --> 00:08:57.460
 you know, the existing blogging

00:08:57.460 --> 00:08:59.560
 tools, although we know

00:08:59.560 --> 00:09:01.630
 that that's totally doable,

00:09:01.630 --> 00:09:03.510
 that's been done in fact, I

00:09:03.510 --> 00:09:05.560
 think I heard Andrew Grumit

00:09:05.560 --> 00:09:05.800
 talk

00:09:05.800 --> 00:09:08.070
 about that, Andrew has made an

00:09:08.070 --> 00:09:10.470
 outliner that works with Google

00:09:10.470 --> 00:09:12.560
 type out of this code base,

00:09:12.560 --> 00:09:13.990
 and so maybe Andrew will, you

00:09:13.990 --> 00:09:15.720
 know, release that application,

00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:17.080
 and you know, there's all

00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:19.250
 kinds of stuff that's possible,

00:09:19.250 --> 00:09:21.170
 and well known how to do that,

00:09:21.170 --> 00:09:22.880
 but I'm going to do like an

00:09:22.880 --> 00:09:25.200
 outliner that's just, I mean, a

00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:27.300
 podcaster, a, let's get this

00:09:27.300 --> 00:09:29.480
 right, a blogging tool is

00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:31.690
 just designed to work with an

00:09:31.690 --> 00:09:34.120
 outliner, and a simpler blog

00:09:34.120 --> 00:09:36.470
ging API that, you know, blog

00:09:36.470 --> 00:09:36.480
ging

00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:39.300
 API that works with that, and,

00:09:39.300 --> 00:09:41.910
 you know, a lot of reasons for

00:09:41.910 --> 00:09:44.640
 doing that, I mean basically,

00:09:44.920 --> 00:09:46.570
 you know, the developer

00:09:46.570 --> 00:09:48.540
 community hasn't wanted to like

00:09:48.540 --> 00:09:50.550
 unify and coalesce, they wanted

00:09:50.550 --> 00:09:50.720
 to

00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:52.340
 blow everything apart, so you

00:09:52.340 --> 00:09:53.820
 know, I'm not going to fight

00:09:53.820 --> 00:09:55.320
 with them on that one, I'm

00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:57.510
 just going to start something

00:09:57.510 --> 00:09:59.340
 new, and learn from what

00:09:59.340 --> 00:10:01.340
 happened in the last, the

00:10:01.340 --> 00:10:02.320
 communities,

00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:04.080
 and then try to make it work

00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:05.920
 out a little bit better this

00:10:05.920 --> 00:10:08.360
 time, so, anyhow, Thunderstorm

00:10:08.520 --> 00:10:11.120
 shows no signs of abating, but

00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:13.520
 I do need to get back to work,

00:10:13.520 --> 00:10:15.520
 and God has provided us

00:10:15.520 --> 00:10:17.670
 with a very entertaining

00:10:17.670 --> 00:10:20.200
 backdrop for a podcast, and a

00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:22.850
 rather hell-raising backdrop

00:10:22.850 --> 00:10:23.320
 for a podcast,

00:10:23.320 --> 00:10:25.460
 and so there you have it, that

00:10:25.460 --> 00:10:29.160
's today, today June 15th, 2005,

00:10:29.160 --> 00:10:30.960
 and this is Morning Coffee

00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:33.560
 Notes, www.morningcoffeynotes.

00:10:33.560 --> 00:10:35.690
com, and I'm Dave Weiner, and my

00:10:35.690 --> 00:10:38.000
 blog is www.scripting.com,

00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:39.860
 and that's where you should

00:10:39.860 --> 00:10:41.710
 tune into for news about the

00:10:41.710 --> 00:10:44.000
 editor that I'm talking about,

00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:46.150
 and all the latest juicy tid

00:10:46.150 --> 00:10:48.640
bits, and from that, if you're

00:10:48.640 --> 00:10:51.000
 going to be at Nome Dex, here

00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:52.410
 comes another one, if you're

00:10:52.410 --> 00:10:53.780
 going to be at Nome Dex, I look

00:10:53.780 --> 00:10:55.400
 forward to seeing you, that's

00:10:55.400 --> 00:10:57.350
 just like next week, so that'll

00:10:57.350 --> 00:10:59.440
 be cool. Anyway, that's it for

00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:01.400
 today, we'll talk to you again

00:11:01.400 --> 00:11:02.000
 real soon, bye.

00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:09.000
 [wind blowing]

00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:16.000
 [wind blowing]

00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:23.000
 [wind blowing]

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 [BLANK_AUDIO]